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+--- Thread: Basic DAW routing question (/showthread.php?tid=1763)
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Basic DAW routing question - Raphie - 10-15-2021
I get confused with how the manual describes "hosts" In & Out for USB and I need a very simple connection
I work with Cubase
In Cubase I've setup my Prophet10 as master keyboard/ input controller, which works fine
I also have a MOOG Subharmonicon and the right (type A) midi trs cable
Directly from the Prophet10 out to the Subharmonicon midi works fine, I can play
However, having setup the MRCC, connected via USB to my DAW, Cubase sees 16 MRCC ports (which I assume correspond to the MRCC + Extender)
The Extender mode has been set to +5 extender
The Subharmonicon is in Extender port 1 (I assume this is then MRCC virtual port 13?)
I press the left "PC" button (under the USB device port)
I press the Y knob and press out one (turns yellow)
When I now select MRCC13 in Cubase as a midi output, it DOESN'T trigger the Subharmonicon
Neither do I see midi in activity on the OLED screen
Where am I going wrong?
I just need a very basic patch from a virtual DAW port to a physical midi out. Can't seem to do it.
Please advise?
RE: Basic DAW routing question - Raphie - 10-15-2021
To add, connecting the midi out of the Prophet-10 to the MRCC MIDI IN 1 and Selecting Y +| MIDI OUT 1 as output works
So I guess the real question is how do I make a routing from virtual/USB midi out port MRCC2 in Cubase to the physical midi (DIN) out Ext-1?
please explain which routing(s) to make.
so I got the principle
Press left PC button (green)
Select Midi Out 1 (corresponds with MRCC OUT in DAW)
Select Y+1 (yellow) for extender port 1
In DAW select MRCC as out and no midi is being received by the MRCC
This is SO frustrating
another issue is that the MRCC sometimes start to broadcast itself as the NDLR port 1-20?!?
I then need to restart the MRCC for the proper names to appear again
(I do also have an NDLR, also via USB connected to PC)
This stuff is not (yet) set and forget.
RE: Basic DAW routing question - Dark Waves - 10-15-2021
So I'm not sitting at my rig at the moment, so can't check every last step, but think I can help get you most of the way there.
On the last point with the NDLR, just a guess (because I don't have one and use Studio One, not Cubase) but it could have something to do with the sequence of powering / connecting things to the computer. On my Windows PC, I have to power on my MRCC #1, then my MRCC #2, and then Studio One in order for them to consistently be recognized and not mixed up. Also have similar problems with another product, so maybe play with the order of starting things up.
For the routing process, maybe I misunderstood the question, but in case not: think of the 12 virtual ports (you mention 16, not sure about that part) as if you had 12 different physical routers, and there is no one-to-one relationship to any of the actual ports. Basically, you can choose any of the 12 you want in the PC, use the same one for everything and split the MIDI channels, or different ports for everything, doesn't matter, so long as you remember which you chose and then pick it when you do the routing. So let's say you randomly chose USB virtual port 8 in Cubase, then on the MRCC when you start the routing out you have to first select host 8 (holding the left button while pressing the 8th output button, which has nothing to do with the 8th DIN port), then let go and pick whichever physical port is feeding your destination synth. Going the other direction is just the reverse: select your physical source, then with the right PC host button select any of the 12 buttons to assign a virtual port, and just make sure you select that same number in your DAW in order to receive incoming MIDI data, making sure to also keep track of the channels. In summary, it's a two stage process, virtual port then physical port, or reverse, depending on direction.
Hope this helps.
RE: Basic DAW routing question - Raphie - 10-15-2021
ThnX I’m understanding the process, but it doesn’t pass midi data
And in Cubase I do see 16 ports not 12 (MRCC <> MRCC-16)
The boot sequence might a good one, though I’ve got no other devices switching names
Green pc > select virtual ch (out 1-12) > select physical din out port (Y+1) extender port 1 (MRCC in extender mode)
RE: Basic DAW routing question - Raphie - 10-16-2021
(10-15-2021, 11:39 PM)Raphie Wrote: ThnX I’m understanding the process, but it doesn’t pass midi data
And in Cubase I do see 16 ports not 12 (MRCC <> MRCC-16)
The boot sequence might a good one, though I’ve got no other devices switching names
Green pc > select virtual ch (out 1-12) > select physical din out port (Y+1) extender port 1 (MRCC in extender mode)
I see 16! virtual PC ports?
disconnecting the MRCC, removing all disconnected devices in device manager and connecting and detecting the unit again, it now works.
Just wondering now how to connect virtual MIDIOUT13 (MRCC) till MIDIOUT16 (MRCC) then?
I'm using the MRCC next to an iConnectivity MIOXL
So, there is something strange going on
Boot the MRCC, map PC port MRCC to Ext 1, this works
change the virtual PC port to MIDIOUT2 (MRCC) and change the according connection / mapping, this DOESN'T work
going back to PC port MRCC, also no longer works
Reboot the unit and map MRCC again it works.
The PC virtual port implementation seems wonky to me?
I need to be able to patch with full confidence between DAW and MRCC, but it's not stable ATM. (at least not on my system with Cubase Pro 11)
RE: Basic DAW routing question - Dark Waves - 10-16-2021
The 16 virtual ports is new to me, all I show are 12. It's true I have the 2nd newest firmware, but I checked the forum entry for the latest and didn't see any significant feature changes, which an increase in ports would be. So, again, just guessing here, is it possible the PC is confusing the identity of ports, and / or possibly mapping them wrong? How many does your MioXL have? I don't see it showing up in the image you attached, but maybe it's just off screen. Just looked at the earlier image, the 16 NDLR ports makes me think the DAW or PC aren't recognizing devices correctly. What would happen if you disconnected the other two devices and booted with only the MRCC? I'd still play around with the sequence of booting all the MIDI units before / after starting Cubase in various combinations. Sorry, these are just stabs in the dark, it may be the support team may have to chime in here.
RE: Basic DAW routing question - Raphie - 10-17-2021
ThnX The MioXL has all custom names. Hence you don’t recognize them.
I’ve removed the ndlr and mrcc removed their reg entries abd reconnected them
Power cycling them in windows messes up ports, that shouldn’t happen
The connect port 1 > works > now port 2 > doesn’t work > now port 1 no longer works shouldn’t happen either.
I’ve got a very complex setup
- IPmidi for SSL Sigma & Nucleus2 (7 ports)
- SSL vmidi for SSL UC-1 (broadcasts 16 ports)
- MioXL for my synths and outboard sequencers (Korg SE64 and Toriaz Squid) (created 14 ports / sessions)
The NDLR & MRCC needs to play nice with above and don’t mess things up. Currently the behaviour of the MRCC is not yet consistent and predictable on my system. I’ve not yet reached the Win11 midi device limit.
If I can’t make the PC port behave, I can only use it as a midi through box / expander through din midi on my MioXL
The look and feel and concept of the unit is great, the expander is great, but at this pricepoint stuff just needs to work, without quircks. To be clear the NDLR worked perfect BEFORE adding the MRCC, it’s just after adding things got messy.
RE: Basic DAW routing question - Dark Waves - 10-17-2021
Sorry you're having this hurdle. Hopefully one of the company team can help sort your problem, because it's definitely miles above my pay grade. Your setup does sound pretty involved. I was having some similar problems with multiple units of another MIDI device, where Windows (and consequently my DAW, Studio One) conflated them and made a non-working jumble in the corresponding drop-down list of ports. The solution there was the company supplying slightly unique firmwares for each device so that Windows would see them consistently as different individual units. Prior to that I had to start them one at a time after launching the DAW. For my 2 MRCCs, I start them before the DAW, so even the "fixes" aren't the same. Also, I'm still on the prehistoric Window 10, although I don't think that matters too much.
RE: Basic DAW routing question - Raphie - 10-17-2021
Indeed the windows version doesn't matter, it might be some FW tuning.
I just had the MRCC lock up trying to save to user 1 slot
I also don't see a visual confirmation on User 1 slot being updated. I tried to save 5 times now, every time after a reboot the unit still has it's "Factory" settings (being on "save" box Highlighted white and the press blue shift + black middle button (enter) nothing happens, either press and hold shift first, or press both at the same time.
The manual mentioned "green" for updated "banks slots" but does this also count for "user 1/2/3" ?
Then there is the Apple USB keyboard (wired) that doesn't respond when plugged into the A/B/C/D port?
I go to the edit label box use the white keys to get in the box, no response from keyboard?
Overall I think the ergonomics for the OLED buttons are also far less then ideal, The interface could have easily be dealt with with the big rubber rotary encoder to navigate only by a "scrol and push" interface would have worked much faster, more consistent and simpler. Same for saving a "shift + enter" while also having to highlight the save box? makes no sense, either shift + enter anywehere on the save page, or just scrol to the save box and push the encoder.
I'm a bit of an autist with these things.
The good news is once booted properly and configured properly, everything works like a charm, however have not been successful saving these settings (might be me, or manual)
and the unit locking up and needing to power cycle ruins my whole session. As it's not properly discovered anymore in windows.
Which means, Close Cubase, reboot system, start everything again. Non of my other devices have these "in windows" boot issues in session. Cubase deals with them just fine, as ports being added/deleted IN SESSION, but for some reason it doesn't with the MRCC
I stand corrected, the MRCC boots correctly in session, but loads Factory, The issue seems to be saving
Being in on the TOOLS menu (dot 1)
navigate to preset selector
select User 1
Navigate to SAVE box (so it's highlighted)
press an hold BLUE Shift button
press black plastic enter button (between the 2 white buttons)
NOTHING happens (at least no visual confirmation)
Press Shift + Enter again
box locks up. totally bricked, needs power cycle.
I definitely can't save, All other issues above seem resolved, I've did reset the unit (booting while holding green button) and mapping and booting in or outside session now works as expected, but I can't save SHIFT + ENTER bricks the unit
the rolling encoder makes the amber led under the USB PC port react, but OLED screen is locked and even the green button, does not turn the unit into sleep
What am I doing wrong?
after a search, seems to be same issue? https://conductivelabs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1721&highlight=save
Did update my unit to latest FW as well before setting it up, So I had no hindsight / reference from older versions
RE: Basic DAW routing question - Dark Waves - 10-17-2021
Since I just updated my own routers to the latest firmware, I can't comment yet on changes in behavior, but things had been pretty stable for me already before. Definitely there hasn't been any bricking during saves, so can't contribute much there.
WRT the keyboard, it's true that working ones are hit or miss, and there's been forum discussion about that. In my case, an old Dell USB wired keyboard didn't work, but a slightly less old Microsoft USB dongle wireless one does work. I haven't tried the Dell one again after updates to see if anything's changed, but based on your comments I'm guessing probably not. Hopefully you can borrow a keyboard from someone to try that does work for you.
As far as saving is concerned, I found that timing made a huge difference. Holding 'shift' and pressing 'enter' indeed isn't reliable, I've had success holding 'shift' and just briefly tapping 'enter' for some reason the momentary tap instead of even a half second press made all the difference, so give that a try.