MIDI Footcontroller => NDLR Live! question

[Pdog]

Hello NDLR users!

I am now exploring if it is possible to use a MIDI foot controller (in my case, a Roland PK-5 or a Behringer FCB1010) to change the programs in the NDLR while it is running.  I’m not sure I have found the proper information in the current V1.12 manual to support this idea.
 
I have a concept for live use:  I can call up a preset, say in the key of A minor on the NDLR.  I have all my synths set to their respective part (pad, drone, motif).  After hitting play, the NDLR does it’s stuff in the I chord, the A minor.  Perhaps I am tweaking knobs on one of the synths, or playing another synth as well, or guitar.  Then I step on my MIDI foot controller and it changes the NDLR from the I chord to the V chord, another step to the VI chord, another step to the II chord, and then back to the I chord.

This way the NDLR changes live in real time under control, instead of sequenced.
 
Is this something that the NDLR can support?

I appreciate all of your input in this matter.

[Darryl]

You can definitely select chord degree and chord type. Check the MIDI implementation chart in the User Guide, appendix A, General CC table for Chord degree.
You can trigger each chord or chord type via MIDI CC.

Or you can do it using The NDLR control channel. See the manual section MIDI Controllers and MIDI Message Flow. In this case, the MIDI pedal buttons would need to be configured to send MIDI note on, note off message. You can try it with any MIDI keyboard to see how it works. 

You also mention program change, which is something added after shipping. Its in the latest beta FW. MIDI Program change 0-8 sent to The NDLR MIDI control channel will select your presets. Set the MIDI control channel in System menu 1.

[Pdog]

Hello Darryl
 
I had a no hands chord change video on the NDLR with a Behringer FCB1010, you were absolutely correct it could be done.  It’s shot in the wrong format for this forum, so I can't post it here.
 
The Behringer is a little clumsy to program and it likes to see two digits to do the change, so I may be updating to another foot controller soon.  In my mind, it should only take 1 stomp to change the chord degree.
 
So the good news is for anyone else who wants both hands tweaking the knobs, follow the CC/note on commands from the manual with the right foot controller and it's game on!
 
Steve

[Darryl]

Cool, would like to see that video. Can you put it on YouTube?

I would also expect to have the one press control. Maybe there is something we can do to improve it? I'll look up the manual and see how it works.

[Pdog]

Hello All

I have the video posted to my facebook page,   https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100006048976855

It's really murky thanks to a missing lightbulb in the area!

I had the Behringer FCB1010 already programmed for "note-on, note-off" as it was controlling a lighting rig.  So I just hooked it up to the NDLR and found that it accepted the same "note-on" commands.

However, the Behringer only has 10 foot switches, so eventually I could only program the 7 chord degree changes (white keys) but not all of the chord type changes (black keys).

I am looking at a Keith McMillen 12-step controller, it has all 12 footpedals readily available, and thus all the necessary controls would be underfoot at one time.  I still can't believe you have to buy an additional breakout box if you want to send MIDI controls - the 12-step only has USB or micro USB outputs.

The older ART X-11 or X-15 boards only send MIDI program change information.  The Roland PK-5 sends out note information and program change information, but not specifically "note-on, note-off" information (or perhaps I didn't program it correctly).

[Steve]

I have a Behringer FCB1010 too.   I’m pretty sure there’s 10 banks of presets, so really that’s 100 things you can do.  Maybe think about chord degree changes on one bank, chord type changes on another bank, and miscellaneous stuff on the other eight banks. 

 Let me know how it all turns out. Also if you’re willing and interested we’ve been thinking about having a repository of midi controller preset downloads.

Steve

[Pdog]

Hello Steve!

You are absolutely correct in regards to the 10 banks of presets (100 total) on the FCB1010.  So far it has been fun to have the chord degree changes on one bank.  Although it would be great to go from "1" to "4" in two steps instead of "01" to "04".  Maybe a little more programming on the Behringer?

But I am looking to have all my "options" available in one bank in front of me for live changes, both the degree changes and the chord type changes.  That's why I am leaning towards the 12-Step.

I can't tell you how much I keep getting lost just jumping around and changing settings while the NDLR keeps chugging on.  Hours at a time.  The second video on my Fb page with the drum fills and resonance changes, as well as some subtle voice changes, that's a mild treatment compared to what normally goes on!

[Steve]

Just watched that new video, awesome! 

I was thinking that you can use those expression pedals to change the position, range, length etc... of the various parts.

Here's a couple links to other threads where I talk mode about controlling The NDLR...

Controller Button Modes (there might be something very helpful here for the FCB1010 issue)

BeatStep as a controller

Steve

[Pdog]

Steve, thank you for the links, they are very helpful.

I might have to take notes when I watch them again!

The next video I hope to demonstrate switching chords while playing a keyboard or guitar part.  That will be an "all-hands on deck" event!

[Pdog]

“I love it when a plan comes together” – ‘Hannibal’ Smith, The A-Team
 
I was discussing MIDI foot controllers that had “note-on,note-off” capabilities with my sales engineer at Sweetwater last week, and he returned with a couple of ideas, such as the Behringer FCB1010 and the Keith McMillen 12-Step and Softstep 2.  If you have been following this thread. we have been discussing both of those. Steve has had some pretty good input so far, great videos.
 
I posted my first two attempts with the FCB1010 on Facebook, maybe you’ve seen the videos.  I was keen on the 12-Step as it had 12 pedals arranged like an octave on the foot controller.  The separation between the “white” keys and the “black” keys, if you will.
 
So I drove from Michigan to Sweetwater in Fort Wayne, IN to demo the 12-Step in person.  I met with a sales engineer on the music store floor, showed him the NDLR and explained what I was looking to do.  He had a demo unit plus the MIDI expander come out from the warehouse; we hooked up the units to the NDLR, then the NDLR to an Oberheim OB-6 (wow) and plugged everything in.  I set the NDLR MIDI input channel to 1, assuming that’s where the foot controller was at, fresh out of the box.
 
THE 12-STEP CONTROLLED THE CHORD DEGREES AND THE CHORD TYPE CHANGES RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX !!!  NO ADDITIONAL PROGRAMMING WAS NEEDED !!!
 
I had two Sweetwater sales engineers, Scott and Colton, watching both the NDLR display and foot controller as I changed the Chord Degrees in real time.  You could hear the OB-6 working away at the MOTIF-1 arpeggiator’s output (so did several customers).  I demonstrated how you could change the Key and Chord type, the BPM, and the MOTIF-1 controls while the NDLR was "noodling away".
 
Then I started tapping the “black” keys on the foot controller, and watched as the Chord Type display changed as well as being able to hear the notes be altered.  Just as the version 1.2 manual said (page 29).
 
HOORAY! Also, it was one touch to the pedal on the 12-Step to make the changes.  Thank you to Darryl and Steve for pointing me in the right direction, thanks to the staff at Sweetwater for the support.  It's been a pretty good day.

Facebook video to follow!