Hi...my NDLR x 2 FW 1.073 is crashing alot

[Dirk Offringa]

I noticed that CC#26 changes the chord degree, but also the motif2 midiport. That's a weird implementation. Could that be related?

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

I noticed that CC#26 changes the chord degree, but also the motif2 midiport. That's a weird implementation. Could that be related?

thats odd because its supposed to be midi cc24 that changes the motif2 midi channel...

I will test that, too because im totally configuring the Octatrack to be a kinematic chord sequencing by the power of greyskull monster for the NDLR...

one minor thing about using the octatrack is that I would rather use midi cc's than note on/off for the chord type and degree....because each of the eight tracks would have to point to the same CTRL layer and normal trigger operation IS note on/off...

the other aspect that makes the crashing a bit more bearable is the fact that the NDLR is really quick to boot so I just save the config on the default layer...but just the crashing means...adding to the template, laying some trigs and letting it run to see if the NDLR can handle the load.

its even possible in theory to parameter lock the tempo, which opens some portals to being able to shift gears from full/half/quarter speed and then back again...and then go back and add a parameter lock to the clock divider on the motif's clock divide, etc.

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

Update : sending pad midi cc 67 (inter leave poly chain) caused the NDLR to free in its tracks...so I’m removing that from the template octatracks template.

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Update : using midi cc 75 caused a freeze....so Using the octatrack to change the “key” of the NDLR can cause the unit to freeze, unfortunately.

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

So I am about to start up again and I did notice somethings about the midi implementation. Take the track Pause/Play for motif #2 on midi cc 88:

0-62 = pause, 62 -127 = play. easy peasy and works because the on/off is achieved by dividing 128 by 2.

not so with the more in-depth functions of the NDLR...like

Motif #2 pattern Length on midi cc #44...which is 1-16

why not divide 128 by 16 and section in out...or apply a modulus so when you get to 15-16 it starts back at one?

The reason I am stating this is that in the particular case of the Elektron Octarack we can parameter lock via endless encoder...but now it becomes a bit of a twiddle as the user focuses on staying within the range of the proposed specification.

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So my current process is that I have all the relevant cc's laid out on 8 tracks for 2 NDLR's that use 2 different CTRL channels. The task at had is to put the midi triggers down and monitor the stability of the first NDLR.

also to whom it may concern(creators/programmers/engineers/support specialists) of the NDLR

being able to achieve harmonic motion on this scale is of great value to me because I feel as though it is part of what is missing in music today...So please do not interpret this as me "downing" the NDLR. I love using it...it was just sold to me under two promises found in the manual.

1) noodling with chord structures and not having to worry about drones, pads, basslines, melodies 2) robust midi implementation that would allow me to use an external controller/sequencer to coordinate controls found within the interface.

as it stands now, I can sit and noodle and I love it. There is just one problem...its easy to get lost and lose sight of ideas, work and themes that took place a nary 10-20 minutes ago. Which is why I am introducing an additional sequencer to orchestrate aspects of the NDLR and add a sense of metric stability and recall.

so as I log these freeze reports in on my free time please don't take it the wrong way or that I do not see the value of the NDLR.

its just if I do not log them in then someone else eventually will have the same issues.

so fingers crossed as I get started.

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

Ok so my morning on the quest for optimal stability settings has found that keeping the pad voice count to 5 is ok so far(basic testing). I am raising it back to six and 7 voices in a moment to double check. And it’s a blessing and a shame, because when I exert this kind of forward kinematic control on the NLDR these amazing tones come out of my Spectralis D-synth(I have 4 Spectralis)

Being able to find that sweet spot of operation will be a challenge...but being able to sweep to pad’s down AS it’s being triggered on a short strum can give some really deep vibes.

Be cool to have a max pad voice count AND a random chord substitution option built into the pad’s option bank...

But no worries moving forward.

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

Update:

Technical error found in the manual pg. 57

For the Pad track.

midi cc 18 chooses the midi PORT usb, midi all, midi a or b, etc.
Midi cc 19 chooses the midi channel 1-16

In the manual it is currently vice versa.

Stability is improving but still no optimal settings for rock solid operation*.

I’m wondering if it’s data overflow that causes it to choke but it doesn’t make sense due to the comparative modernity of this sequencer to others.

By rock solid I mean performance ready for a festival or concert where 1000+ people paid 20 dollars or more and the sequencer isn’t seen as a weak link in the chain. My vision is to be able to use the octatrack in tandem with the NDLR units to sculpt out of groove based on harmonics and that happens from ground zero(no data) or have saved sets of triggers and p-locks.


Benefits? (Good news)

The octatrack and each NDLR are tempo independent and the NDLR’s can grab their tempo from the octatrack via midi cc or clock or run independent. The octatracks triggers allow for then pad’s to have a precise responsiveness which combines the play/pause with the position. Combined with the strum there are so,e great stabs, runs and glissandos happening with great nuance and not a whole lot of effort. I could use the mv8800 for this but the truth is the octatrack is more efficient and easier to manage space wise.

The midi select channel option is incredibly useful for my setup...because I can have 3 different voices loaded on the dsynth found on the Spectralis. Each having an octave switch, filter setting and an arpeggiator switch. By placing a triggerless parameter lock I can develop an array of extremely rhythmic harmonic tones based on switching the pad’s midi channel from 13-16. The only other way to achieve this would be to manually go to settings and switching it myself...but then I lose the functionality timing and refining the patch settings for each of the d-synths.

[Dirk Offringa]

Interesting read... keep it coming. I have a Octatrack too, but I use a Pyramid for midi duties, but never mind , I share your concerns , this thread is useful, thanks

[Jesse Johannesen]

I noticed that CC#26 changes the chord degree, but also the motif2 midiport. That's a weird implementation. Could that be related?

Dirk it this was an issue it must have been cleared up in a FW update a while back, I just tested it on my unit and it only changes the Chord Degree for me. I recommend taking a second to get updated to the most recent firmware. In fact come to think of it, that should have been my first recommendation for this whole thread. I'm still getting caught up with reading the thread, but Ghostz, if you haven't yet, I would suggest you check if your FW is up to date too.

Jesse

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

Interesting read... keep it coming. I have a Octatrack too, but I use a Pyramid for midi duties, but never mind , I share your concerns , this thread is useful, thanks

Thanks I’m still hunting down glitches and I have only heard good things about the pyramid sequencer. I have other sequencers as well, but my decision on using the OT is mostly for the arranger/song view.

The key thing to appreciate about the NDLR sequencing strategy is the fact that almost everything is in midi cc’s...and with a bit of coordination and planning we can enjoy a certain degree of tactical improvisation by placing pinpoint parameter locks on the sequencer and then in the case of the OT turn the entire track off, switch to the NDLR , keep flowing and then re engage the octatrack in either song or pattern mode.

So far it’s best when I stay with 5-6 voices on the paid, btwa.

The midi cc solution could be better. It’s not a lot of fun needle nosing midi cc of 1-7 versus having 1-7 averaged across 0-127

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I noticed that CC#26 changes the chord degree, but also the motif2 midiport. That's a weird implementation. Could that be related?

Dirk it this was an issue it must have been cleared up in a FW update a while back, I just tested it on my unit and it only changes the Chord Degree for me. I recommend taking a second to get updated to the most recent firmware. In fact come to think of it, that should have been my first recommendation for this whole thread. I'm still getting caught up with reading the thread, but Ghostz, if you haven't yet, I would suggest you check if your FW is up to date too.

Jesse

Hello, my NDLR arrived with 1.1.073 

Am I missing an update because I thought I was fully updated...

[Jesse Johannesen]

Update:

Technical error found in the manual pg. 57

For the Pad track.

midi cc 18 chooses the midi PORT usb, midi all, midi a or b, etc.
Midi cc 19 chooses the midi channel 1-16

In the manual it is currently vice versa.

Stability is improving but still no optimal settings for rock solid operation*.

I’m wondering if it’s data overflow that causes it to choke but it doesn’t make sense due to the comparative modernity of this sequencer to others.

By rock solid I mean performance ready for a festival or concert where 1000+ people paid 20 dollars or more and the sequencer isn’t seen as a weak link in the chain. My vision is to be able to use the octatrack in tandem with the NDLR units to sculpt out of groove based on harmonics and that happens from ground zero(no data) or have saved sets of triggers and p-locks.


Benefits? (Good news)

The octatrack and each NDLR are tempo independent and the NDLR’s can grab their tempo from the octatrack via midi cc or clock or run independent. The octatracks triggers allow for then pad’s to have a precise responsiveness which combines the play/pause with the position. Combined with the strum there are so,e great stabs, runs and glissandos happening with great nuance and not a whole lot of effort. I could use the mv8800 for this but the truth is the octatrack is more efficient and easier to manage space wise.

The midi select channel option is incredibly useful for my setup...because I can have 3 different voices loaded on the dsynth found on the Spectralis. Each having an octave switch, filter setting and an arpeggiator switch. By placing a triggerless parameter lock I can develop an array of extremely rhythmic harmonic tones based on switching the pad’s midi channel from 13-16. The only other way to achieve this would be to manually go to settings and switching it myself...but then I lose the functionality timing and refining the patch settings for each of the d-synths.

I am glad you're finding a little more stability, I am still not sure whether or not what we're dealing with here is a hardware issue, a firmware bug, or if we're dealing with a data bandwidth issue, however I am leaning more towards 1, or 2. I think we need to do a few things to figure that out:
1. we need to check the firmware and make sure you're using the newest available option, and in some cases we've seen instability caused by corrupt save states so I am going to suggest doing a factory reset after the update. (press and hold [shift + menu] while power cycling to enter boot menu then press the PAD play/pause button to reset the eeprom. You will lose save data, but it may be that is the cause of your issues so we have to check.
2. we need to simplify the setup and see if we can get both of the units to fail under the same conditions individually (I know you mentioned coming back to find them both frozen, but I would like to see it happen more than once on unit 2), so crank up that pad voice count and lets see how number 2 does under fire.
3 I still need to test the Octatrack and see if I can get mine to crash under similar conditions, so far I have been using MIDIox to send all the CCs you've listed and no amount of modulation one at a time is causing me any issues, besides an occasional hung note when adjusting polychain live. I should also say that the NDLR shouldn't have bandwidth problems for something like this as it can pass loads of data through without issue in my experience.

I may need to take a stab at it with the OT tomorrow as I have been working now all day and I need some rest.
Best of luck!
Jesse