M-Audio Keyboard setup

[marcoiozzi]

Hello guys,
i'm starting to play with my new ndlr but i'm sure i'm light years behind a lot of you so i have a problem i'm sure someone can help me with.
I know i can control the change of key not only with the ndlr buttons but with a midi keyboard.
I have the ndlr connected via USB only as i work with softsynths only for the moment using Logic. I also have an M-Audio 88 keyboard connected as well via USB.
I can't wrap my head around the menu Keybd Cntl (and the Ndls Cntl) but i'd like to set it up so i can switch key on my keyboard controller as well.
Can someone help me ?
thanks a lot in advance

Marco

[Jesse Johannesen]

Hello guys,
i'm starting to play with my new ndlr but i'm sure i'm light years behind a lot of you so i have a problem i'm sure someone can help me with.
I know i can control the change of key not only with the ndlr buttons but with a midi keyboard.
I have the ndlr connected via USB only as i work with softsynths only for the moment using Logic. I also have an M-Audio 88 keyboard connected as well via USB.
I can't wrap my head around the menu Keybd Cntl (and the Ndls Cntl) but i'd like to set it up so i can switch key on my keyboard controller as well.
Can someone help me ?
thanks a lot in advance

Marco

Hey Marco, glad to hear you're starting to step out into deeper waters with the NDLR. Let me see if I can shed some light on how those settings work for you.
with the M88 keyboard connected via usb, you will either need to have a DAW route that midi to the NDLR usb midi in, or you can connect it directly with a midi patch cable to one of the NDLR's MIDI DIN inputs. In the settings menu page 1/3 there are two settings we need to take note of: NDLR Ctrl and KB Transpose. take note of the channels assigned to these and take this opportunity to set them to a channel not used elsewhere in your setup if possible. Mine are set to 15 and 16 ALL, but if you know which port you'll be using you can set it to be specific, like USB1 channel 16 etc.

Next we need to adjust the setting for KB Ctrl just below the other two menu items. Set this to "Wht & Blk Keys - C"

Once we're all hooked up and know what channels we want to use, we can set the MIDI keyboard to send notes on one of those two channels. If we're set to send on the channel we chose for NDLR Ctrl then all the white keys can be used to select a chord degree (same as the white buttons surrounding the screen) starting with C = 1st chord degree. The black keys will select our chord types, so pressing a C and a c# will give us a C triad in the C Major Scale. Play around with that and see if you can get the hang of it.

Then let's switch to our other MIDI Channel, the one for Transpose. This one does something different. It takes the white keys you play into it and plays them out the output, on the same channel, but shifted into the scale that the NDLR is currently set to. If you play notes in the scale they come out the same, but if you play out of the scale the output notes will be in scale. All timing and other info will be the same, just the note played will be different.

Both of these can be used to control the NDLR live, but where it gets really sweet is when you use a sequencer to compose the changes. This makes some really complex scenarios possible, and is a blast to explore.

Let me know if that answers your questions, and if you have anything else I can help with please feel free to reach out.

Jesse

[marcoiozzi]

Hey Jesse,
i thought i would have received an email in case of answers to mine but apparently i did not set it up correctly. So i'm glad i checked again.
So i'm sorry for the delay in this answer and i can't thank you enough for your help.

Let me point out a few things:

- as far as i understood i need a midi cable to connect the keyboard, i can't use the same USB that's connected to my Mac and control the key switch like that right ?
- like you mention a very interesting thing i wanna dive it is the SEQUENCING of chords change, but do you mean the Chord Sequencer inside the NDLR (i have not found
good tutorials on that and it does not seem so easy to grab) or are you thinking about a hardware sequencer. In case, do you have any favorite you'd like to recommend.

thanks and sorry again for the delay after your kind answer

Marco

[Jesse Johannesen]

Hey Jesse,
i thought i would have received an email in case of answers to mine but apparently i did not set it up correctly. So i'm glad i checked again.
So i'm sorry for the delay in this answer and i can't thank you enough for your help.

Let me point out a few things:

- as far as i understood i need a midi cable to connect the keyboard, i can't use the same USB that's connected to my Mac and control the key switch like that right ?
- like you mention a very interesting thing i wanna dive it is the SEQUENCING of chords change, but do you mean the Chord Sequencer inside the NDLR (i have not found
good tutorials on that and it does not seem so easy to grab) or are you thinking about a hardware sequencer. In case, do you have any favorite you'd like to recommend.

thanks and sorry again for the delay after your kind answer

Marco

Hi again Marco,
To receive notifications I believe you need to click on the "subscribe to this thread" button at the bottom left of this page.
As far as midi goes, it may be possible to route a USB midi Keyboard into the NDLR from your DAW, but has the potential to create midi loops that could cause a crash, so I don't recommend that if it can be done the other way around (midi into NDLR via din, passed through USB to DAW).

If you plan to use the transport functions on your keyboard (start stop etc) then be sure to use MIDI DIN port B in, and connect to your DAW via USB port 2, as these are the only ports that pass this info. Here is a chart of how the NDLR passes MIDI data from the manual for your convenience:    

I was talking about using an external sequencer to control the NDLR, and really anything could work it just needs to be able to send notes to the NDLR Ctrl Channel, but if it can send CC changes as well, all the better as basically everything on the NDLR can be controlled by MIDI CCs. Ableton Live would be a great place to start, as you can draw in the piano roll for chord changes you want to make and add envelope channels for the CCs you want to edit, but it isn't the only option by any means, a novation circuit would work great, or even one of the Elektron Model: series if you wanted to keep it out of the box.

The Chord sequencer is a little difficult to grasp initially, but once you get your head around it it becomes pretty straight forward:

To get to the Chord Seq page, press [SHIFT+MENU] followed by a press of the top left encoder button.

The encoders are associated with the screen selection icons at the same height, so the top two encoders edit selection of which slot to save/load.

The Chord Seq is made up of 3 chord progressions, A, B, and C, these are shown in the third section of the screen labeled "Sections". The section being edited shows up as a yellow square. The 3rd knob down on the left selects which slot is being edited. Each slot holds info for Count in 1/4 notes, Scale, Chord Degree, and Chord Type. These values are entered in the screen section above.

The second row down the left encoder highlights which object to edit in the second section of the screen (current selection will show up highlighted yellow), the right encoder second from the top will make changes to the selection. These are the values mentioned above, and each of the Sections is made up of 6 squares, you can fill all six squares with info or leave them empty and they will be skipped. So you could have Section A consist of 8 1/4 notes, in Scale A Major, Chord Degree I (A Maj) and Triad Chord Shape.

Then the next slot in A (in section 3 "Sections") could be 4 1/4 notes long, still in A Major, Chord Degree V (E Maj) and Triad.

Then the third slot we could put to 4 1/4 notes long, still A Maj, Chord Deg IV (D Maj) and 7th chord shape.

The 4th portion of the screen is where we choose which Sections we want to play, in which order, and with how many repeats they have. Since this example we only layed out section A, we could just use the bottom pair of encoders using the left to select value to edit and the right to change that value, in the first slot we would select A and in the second value we could put 4 to repeat 4 times, now lets pretend we entered step values for Section B, and we want to play that 2 times before going back to the A section. We would navigate to the 3rd value in the bottom section and choose B then move over to the right to select x2 repeats. This would give us a little song with 2 parts.

To enable the NDLR to play this, you would turn the 3rd knob down on the right until it the little display window shows ARMED in green. Now when we hit play, the NDLR takes its chord and scale info from here and the changes happen in time with the tempo corresponding to the note lengths we selected above.

So, you can make up to three sections, each with 6 possible chord (and scale) changes, and sequence them to play in any order with 8 possible changes and as many as 8 repeats per section. To stop the Chord Seq, turn the knob you enabled it with until it shows Disarmed in red.

I hope this helps.

Jesse

[marcoiozzi]

Thanks a lot Jesse,
i'm glad i put my hands on this incredible little machine, i'm slowly figuring things out by manual / youtube and some trial and error ( which is play after all ).
I thank you a lot for all these useful information and taking the time to help me! 
I wish you the best

Marco

[marcoiozzi]

Hi Jesse, 
I'm a little bit ashamed but I'd need your help again, if you don't mind.
Thanks for the suggestions on the chord sequencer, actually yes after a little bit of getting used to it it's actually quite powerful and makes sense.
However, I still have problem trying to connect my M Audio midi keyboard to the NDRL so that I'm able to change chords. I bought a midi cable which is in port MIDI IN A of the NDRL.
For the M-Audio, I have a software (preset editor) in which I assign the GLOBAL MIDI to channel 15. In menu 1 of The NDLR I use 15All for NDLR control and 16KbTrans as well as WhiteandBlk keys for KBControl (MIDI OUT is on ALL PORTS)
Unfortunately i can play on my keyboard but chords don't change. I also tried to mess around in Logic and the Midi Audio Setup but I can't seem to understand where I have to put channel 15 on my Keyboard so that I can change chords from it.
I'm really sorry as it might be straight forward but I'm not a very tech guy and new to this.
thanks

Marco

[Jesse Johannesen]

Hi Jesse, 
I'm a little bit ashamed but I'd need your help again, if you don't mind.
Thanks for the suggestions on the chord sequencer, actually yes after a little bit of getting used to it it's actually quite powerful and makes sense.
However, I still have problem trying to connect my M Audio midi keyboard to the NDRL so that I'm able to change chords. I bought a midi cable which is in port MIDI IN A of the NDRL.
For the M-Audio, I have a software (preset editor) in which I assign the GLOBAL MIDI to channel 15. In menu 1 of The NDLR I use 15All for NDLR control and 16KbTrans as well as WhiteandBlk keys for KBControl (MIDI OUT is on ALL PORTS)
Unfortunately i can play on my keyboard but chords don't change. I also tried to mess around in Logic and the Midi Audio Setup but I can't seem to understand where I have to put channel 15 on my Keyboard so that I can change chords from it.
I'm really sorry as it might be straight forward but I'm not a very tech guy and new to this.
thanks

Marco

Hey again Marco,
That certainly sounds like it should be working for you, I wonder what the issue is? I guess we should just double check that things are connected properly to start with, sorry these are going to be totally obvious questions but sometimes things just get overlooked.
Things we need to check:

• The keyboard it plugged in to power
  
• Midi cable is plugged into the output (make sure it's the out and not the Thru) of the controller and the input of the NDLR
  
• Double check that the MIDI channels are not reversed (CRTL is 15 and Transpose is 16 not the reverse)
  

If that is all a-ok then we may need to use a freeware midi monitor like midiox to make sure it's transmitting the right info on the right channel. Download that app and run it and with the MIDI keyboard connected to the computer via usb, click options and then the MIDI Devices option. select your keyboard in the inputs section and hit ok. Then if its not open already you can open the midi input monitor (4th menu icon from the right in the menubar below the file menu, red banner terminal icon). Now if you press a key it should show the info for that note data on the MIDI monitor, just ensure that it's sending on the correct channel (the 7th column of data is labeled channel make sure that's 15).

If that is all correct, report back and I'll try to think of what else it might be.
Thanks,
Jesse

[marcoiozzi]

Hi Jesse, 
I'm a little bit ashamed but I'd need your help again, if you don't mind.
Thanks for the suggestions on the chord sequencer, actually yes after a little bit of getting used to it it's actually quite powerful and makes sense.
However, I still have problem trying to connect my M Audio midi keyboard to the NDRL so that I'm able to change chords. I bought a midi cable which is in port MIDI IN A of the NDRL.
For the M-Audio, I have a software (preset editor) in which I assign the GLOBAL MIDI to channel 15. In menu 1 of The NDLR I use 15All for NDLR control and 16KbTrans as well as WhiteandBlk keys for KBControl (MIDI OUT is on ALL PORTS)
Unfortunately i can play on my keyboard but chords don't change. I also tried to mess around in Logic and the Midi Audio Setup but I can't seem to understand where I have to put channel 15 on my Keyboard so that I can change chords from it.
I'm really sorry as it might be straight forward but I'm not a very tech guy and new to this.
thanks

Marco

Hey again Marco,
That certainly sounds like it should be working for you, I wonder what the issue is? I guess we should just double check that things are connected properly to start with, sorry these are going to be totally obvious questions but sometimes things just get overlooked.
Things we need to check:

• The keyboard it plugged in to power
  
• Midi cable is plugged into the output (make sure it's the out and not the Thru) of the controller and the input of the NDLR
  
• Double check that the MIDI channels are not reversed (CRTL is 15 and Transpose is 16 not the reverse)
  

If that is all a-ok then we may need to use a freeware midi monitor like midiox to make sure it's transmitting the right info on the right channel. Download that app and run it and with the MIDI keyboard connected to the computer via usb, click options and then the MIDI Devices option. select your keyboard in the inputs section and hit ok. Then if its not open already you can open the midi input monitor (4th menu icon from the right in the menubar below the file menu, red banner terminal icon). Now if you press a key it should show the info for that note data on the MIDI monitor, just ensure that it's sending on the correct channel (the 7th column of data is labeled channel make sure that's 15).

If that is all correct, report back and I'll try to think of what else it might be.
Thanks,
Jesse

Hi Jesse,
as usual thanks for replying and trying to help so kindly.
You did the right thing to even mention the obvious things, but in this case it was all as it should have been.
So NDlR configured to send on Midi 15, midi cable out from my M Audio keyboard going inside Midi Port A.
I have a small app to configure the Keyboard and as you can see from the picture i set the channel to 15 (nothing changes)
i also opened the MIDI Setup on Mac and as you can see i can change the channels the keyboard transmits or receives, tried to put 15 obviously but,
once i start one of the 4 tracks, the chord does not change no matter which key i press on the keyboard.

The app you mentioned, MidiOx is not available for Mac, so maybe i need something else ? I thought though i could have done everything either inside Logic (assigning the channels for the 4 tracks is pretty straightforward) or via the Midi Audio Setup, but i can't get it to work as it is right now. Maybe it's something very stupid, but i can't get my head around it. Do you have any other ideas ? customer on a Mac with a midi keyboard that maybe went through it already ?

pretty weird,
thanks again

marco

[Jesse Johannesen]

Hi Jesse, 
I'm a little bit ashamed but I'd need your help again, if you don't mind.
Thanks for the suggestions on the chord sequencer, actually yes after a little bit of getting used to it it's actually quite powerful and makes sense.
However, I still have problem trying to connect my M Audio midi keyboard to the NDRL so that I'm able to change chords. I bought a midi cable which is in port MIDI IN A of the NDRL.
For the M-Audio, I have a software (preset editor) in which I assign the GLOBAL MIDI to channel 15. In menu 1 of The NDLR I use 15All for NDLR control and 16KbTrans as well as WhiteandBlk keys for KBControl (MIDI OUT is on ALL PORTS)
Unfortunately i can play on my keyboard but chords don't change. I also tried to mess around in Logic and the Midi Audio Setup but I can't seem to understand where I have to put channel 15 on my Keyboard so that I can change chords from it.
I'm really sorry as it might be straight forward but I'm not a very tech guy and new to this.
thanks

Marco

Hey again Marco,
That certainly sounds like it should be working for you, I wonder what the issue is? I guess we should just double check that things are connected properly to start with, sorry these are going to be totally obvious questions but sometimes things just get overlooked.
Things we need to check:

• The keyboard it plugged in to power
  
• Midi cable is plugged into the output (make sure it's the out and not the Thru) of the controller and the input of the NDLR
  
• Double check that the MIDI channels are not reversed (CRTL is 15 and Transpose is 16 not the reverse)
  

If that is all a-ok then we may need to use a freeware midi monitor like midiox to make sure it's transmitting the right info on the right channel. Download that app and run it and with the MIDI keyboard connected to the computer via usb, click options and then the MIDI Devices option. select your keyboard in the inputs section and hit ok. Then if its not open already you can open the midi input monitor (4th menu icon from the right in the menubar below the file menu, red banner terminal icon). Now if you press a key it should show the info for that note data on the MIDI monitor, just ensure that it's sending on the correct channel (the 7th column of data is labeled channel make sure that's 15).

If that is all correct, report back and I'll try to think of what else it might be.
Thanks,
Jesse

Hi Jesse,
as usual thanks for replying and trying to help so kindly.
You did the right thing to even mention the obvious things, but in this case it was all as it should have been.
So NDlR configured to send on Midi 15, midi cable out from my M Audio keyboard going inside Midi Port A.
I have a small app to configure the Keyboard and as you can see from the picture i set the channel to 15 (nothing changes)
i also opened the MIDI Setup on Mac and as you can see i can change the channels the keyboard transmits or receives, tried to put 15 obviously but,
once i start one of the 4 tracks, the chord does not change no matter which key i press on the keyboard.

The app you mentioned, MidiOx is not available for Mac, so maybe i need something else ? I thought though i could have done everything either inside Logic (assigning the channels for the 4 tracks is pretty straightforward) or via the Midi Audio Setup, but i can't get it to work as it is right now. Maybe it's something very stupid, but i can't get my head around it. Do you have any other ideas ? customer on a Mac with a midi keyboard that maybe went through it already ?

pretty weird,
thanks again

marco

If we can't use MIDI Ox we can probably use your DAW to just confirm the Keyboard is outputting data on the prescribed channel. If you connect to the computer (try via usb first) and open your DAW (sounds like you use logic), then create an instance of any MIDI instrument and assign it to channel 15 and make sure to set the input to the right device. I don't have Logic but I assume this is pretty straight forward and the process should be described in the documentation (check for a quick start guide).
Once you get that set up just play some notes to ensure it is actually outputting data on the channel we think it is. If it is putting out data on channel 15 via usb, if possible make sure it's also coming out the DIN port (and the cable is good) by setting another device to channel 15 (if possible) and playing some notes into the MIDI Din input. If that doesn't work we need to try a different cord (again, if possible) to see if your cable may be the culprit.

We can also send MIDI to the NDLR from your DAW on channel 15 over usb and test that we can make that work.

Let me know if any of these tests uncovers something. I'm sure we're overlooking something here but I just can't see what it would be. We'll get there eventually though, don't worry.

Best,
Jesse

[marcoiozzi]

Hi Jesse, 
I'm a little bit ashamed but I'd need your help again, if you don't mind.
Thanks for the suggestions on the chord sequencer, actually yes after a little bit of getting used to it it's actually quite powerful and makes sense.
However, I still have problem trying to connect my M Audio midi keyboard to the NDRL so that I'm able to change chords. I bought a midi cable which is in port MIDI IN A of the NDRL.
For the M-Audio, I have a software (preset editor) in which I assign the GLOBAL MIDI to channel 15. In menu 1 of The NDLR I use 15All for NDLR control and 16KbTrans as well as WhiteandBlk keys for KBControl (MIDI OUT is on ALL PORTS)
Unfortunately i can play on my keyboard but chords don't change. I also tried to mess around in Logic and the Midi Audio Setup but I can't seem to understand where I have to put channel 15 on my Keyboard so that I can change chords from it.
I'm really sorry as it might be straight forward but I'm not a very tech guy and new to this.
thanks

Marco

Hey again Marco,
That certainly sounds like it should be working for you, I wonder what the issue is? I guess we should just double check that things are connected properly to start with, sorry these are going to be totally obvious questions but sometimes things just get overlooked.
Things we need to check:

• The keyboard it plugged in to power
  
• Midi cable is plugged into the output (make sure it's the out and not the Thru) of the controller and the input of the NDLR
  
• Double check that the MIDI channels are not reversed (CRTL is 15 and Transpose is 16 not the reverse)
  

If that is all a-ok then we may need to use a freeware midi monitor like midiox to make sure it's transmitting the right info on the right channel. Download that app and run it and with the MIDI keyboard connected to the computer via usb, click options and then the MIDI Devices option. select your keyboard in the inputs section and hit ok. Then if its not open already you can open the midi input monitor (4th menu icon from the right in the menubar below the file menu, red banner terminal icon). Now if you press a key it should show the info for that note data on the MIDI monitor, just ensure that it's sending on the correct channel (the 7th column of data is labeled channel make sure that's 15).

If that is all correct, report back and I'll try to think of what else it might be.
Thanks,
Jesse

Hi Jesse,
as usual thanks for replying and trying to help so kindly.
You did the right thing to even mention the obvious things, but in this case it was all as it should have been.
So NDlR configured to send on Midi 15, midi cable out from my M Audio keyboard going inside Midi Port A.
I have a small app to configure the Keyboard and as you can see from the picture i set the channel to 15 (nothing changes)
i also opened the MIDI Setup on Mac and as you can see i can change the channels the keyboard transmits or receives, tried to put 15 obviously but,
once i start one of the 4 tracks, the chord does not change no matter which key i press on the keyboard.

The app you mentioned, MidiOx is not available for Mac, so maybe i need something else ? I thought though i could have done everything either inside Logic (assigning the channels for the 4 tracks is pretty straightforward) or via the Midi Audio Setup, but i can't get it to work as it is right now. Maybe it's something very stupid, but i can't get my head around it. Do you have any other ideas ? customer on a Mac with a midi keyboard that maybe went through it already ?

pretty weird,
thanks again

marco

If we can't use MIDI Ox we can probably use your DAW to just confirm the Keyboard is outputting data on the prescribed channel. If you connect to the computer (try via usb first) and open your DAW (sounds like you use logic), then create an instance of any MIDI instrument and assign it to channel 15 and make sure to set the input to the right device. I don't have Logic but I assume this is pretty straight forward and the process should be described in the documentation (check for a quick start guide).
Once you get that set up just play some notes to ensure it is actually outputting data on the channel we think it is. If it is putting out data on channel 15 via usb, if possible make sure it's also coming out the DIN port (and the cable is good) by setting another device to channel 15 (if possible) and playing some notes into the MIDI Din input. If that doesn't work we need to try a different cord (again, if possible) to see if your cable may be the culprit.

We can also send MIDI to the NDLR from your DAW on channel 15 over usb and test that we can make that work.

Let me know if any of these tests uncovers something. I'm sure we're overlooking something here but I just can't see what it would be. We'll get there eventually though, don't worry.

Best,
Jesse

Hi Jesse,
i'll do some tests later and will let you know.. i also just ordered the Digitone after having seen how well they work together... will be fun..
but one thing at a time, thanks for being patient !
talk later

m